For those who don’t understand how horse shoes work,
this is an eray of a TWH with a big lick STACK. Normal shoes don’t look like this, ever. no exception.
Not everyone does that…If put on the correct way it is NOT abuse
I would love to see the stacked shoes you consider humane?
Have you seen the video Craigslisthorses posted? x
It shows what seems to be a perfectly healthy working twh, and it explains the whole process of putting the shoes on and how the horse only has them on for show season etc etc…
Again, I don’t know too much about the walking horse show ring, but from what this video shows, It seems humane. Don’t get me wrong there are bad eggs in ever discipline but there are also good ones.
the shoes cause undue stress on joints. and every single successful horse in that arena has been abused. They’ve turned blind eyes to soring them and beating them. There is alot of research people have done already.
Look at the video on my blog
Every single horse is abused? Really? There is no point in arguing if you have already made up your mind to be ignorant.
And jumping, western pleasure, and reining all put undue stress on horses joints, and don’t even get me started on the racing industry.
My point is, if we start just attacking disciplines as a whole, and not just try to weed out the bad people, what discipline could be next?
There is a difference between informing and arguing. And if you’re not going to actually read what I wrote there is no point in “arguing”
I said every successful horse. There is personally one man my mother knew who showed in this arena. He refused to do the things his other competitors did. Because he just loved the horses and showing them. But he would never win.
You think you’re comparing apples and oranges but this would be like if every jumper rider started polling their horses.
The fact is there is alot of money in this arena. That’s why nobody is actually making an effort to shut down the abusers. Because almost EVERYONE is abusing them.
To make it cruelty free they’d have to completely overhaul the entire sport.
Again alot of people have done alot of research please look that up.
Have you watched the video I posted a link to above? It shows a clear example of a sucessful horse who has not been abused. Yes abuse is common, but not every successful horse is abused. Trust me i’ve done my research. Ive just come to a different conclusion than you.
Can someone watch the video and summarize? I don’t have any time prepping for this stupid winter storm.
Based on who made put this video out there and the fact that is supposedly focuses on one horse doesn’t really give me much hope but I haven’t watched it yet so I’m not offering judgment.
Icelandic horses show just as much leg action without weighted shoes or training gimmicks. By giving them strong foundations in dressage, we are able to rock them back on their hind ends, the horse self-carries, and voila, the shoulder is freed up and leg action happens. If TWH need THIS much help to achieve leg action when other breeds are doing it on their own, then leg action should not be part of what is judged in these competitions. It’s not part of the gait if the horse can’t do it without giant shoes or weights.
I don’t have a dog in this fight, but I think everyone should read the comment just above mine. She speaks truth.
Read the bolded, it sums up my thoughts on this debate so far.
Ok, i do own a TWH and have shown minimally (4-H), in my experience with the breed there are horses that have great movement or horses with a valuable blood line, no inbetween, the whole reason these shoes are used is because they highlight the horses natural gait (or at least they are supposed to) but the trend has been to breed horses based on blood line instead of actual movement so many of the high level horses can not gait without stacks on. As for my opinion on stacks themselves i do not believe they are abusive, yes some people abuse horses with them, but as a shoe itself it is no worse than a regular flat shoe. If you would look closer at the photo originally posted you would see that all those nails that caused this automatic shaming of stacked shoes are NOT in contact with the horses hoof, stacks are attached with normal horseshoe nails the same way that normal shoes are, the only change is a band over the top that adds support but it is kept loose when the horse is not being ridden or shown. I am in no way defending those who do sore their horses but there are successful horses out there that haven’t been sored or had their tail set and stacks, when used properly, are no more cruel than a conventional horse shoe.
I’m sorry but stacked shoes are NOT just the same as flat ones and the issue is NOT all the nails in the stack, rather the extreme weight and angle the stacks set the hoof at is what people consider abusive.
So.. Yeah. No.
Okey dokey, here we go.
Let me start off by saying that I feel the only way to be 100% “abuse-free” to a horse is to not own one. I don’t care how careful you are, or how much you are an advocate for “R+ Only” methods. At any given point you are going to do something to annoy/irritate your horse or to make your horse uncomfortable and unhappy. Anyone, depending on their personal perspective, could call any of these things (no matter how minor) abuse. (Whether they actually are abusive or not is another story.)
Also, I’m not a veterinarian, and don’t have years of medical training to back up my opinions. Nor am I the be-all/end-all authority on all things equine. So you can choose to ignore me based on those facts alone if you want to.
I’m also only focusing on the issues that can come about from stacks and their effect on the lower forelimb.
That being said, I want you to compare the original radiograph with this image scanned from Diagnosis and Management of Lameness In the Horse (First Edition, pg 252, Fig. 27-1)
Books are hard to scan, so let me type up that caption for you:
Traditional guidelines defining normal dorsopalmar static or geometric balance.The dorsal hoof wall should be paralel to the dorsal aspect of the pastern and to the hoof wall at the heels. A line bisecting the third metacarpal bone should reach the ground at the weight-bearing parts of the heel.
What you can clearly see comparing this figure with the original x-ray is that the “stacked” horse’s hoof is canted onto it’s toe. Exactly like wearing a high heel. Doing this changes how the limb bears weight.
Now, in the video posted above, they say that the horse was stack-free for 100 days, or just over 3 months. Assuming this horse stays in stacks continually for the rest of the year (the video did not mention, concisely, how often he gets a break, though the narrator made it sound as though it were annually) that means the horse is wearing those pads approx 265 consecutive days.
Here’s a diagram of the tendons and ligaments in the horse’s lower fore-leg:
Now think about how being shod in a stack would change the stresses on those tendons and ligaments. For example, by rotating the toe downward you are straining the extensor branch of the suspensory (bright yellow) and the common/dorsal extensor tendon (blue, not labled). This is just below the knee. If you look further up in the leg, there are other structures being effected as well.
Now to illustrate the effect the pads can have on the hoof wall, we can look to the posted video. Here are a few screen caps:
So we have some pre-trim shots, and a post-trim shot. While the picture waaay at the top of this post (radiograph) shows a pretty nice hoof wall, you can clearly see that this horse has very long toes (even post trim) and slight dishing, which is definitely less than Ideal. I did a little bit of Googling to look at the condition of other “BIg Lick” horse’s hooves, and the dishing seems, to me, a little too common for comfort.
In my opinion, these stacks are not good for the long-term soundness of the horse.
It’s up to you whether or not you define that as abuse.
I don’t know about you gals, but I can only tolerate a few hours in my high-heels before I have to kick them off. I can’t even begin to imagine living in them for most of the year.